"nobody" Please contact the CSL to get a reason if there is one. As far as I am aware there was a referee appointed.
Unfortunately the FFSA is upset with alot of the behaviour in this league. Currently there are 2 hearings to take place against incidents which have occured this year. One is a serious charge of assulting a referee.
So with this sitting in the background it is no surprise that the FFSA is not going to give us all we want.
1.I try to speak to as many people as possible and its always interesting to hear peoples views.
Many would have noticed that we dont see some referees this year that we might of seen in the last few years. I have run into a few of these in my travels and have asked them this question. "Are you still refeering this year?" Reply - "No, its no point putting up with all the crap from players / coaches / spectators"
2.I have been told by some good contacts that there are a number of refeeres that refuse to referee certain clubs. This list is only growing. They have had too many bad experiences with them and basically tell the FFSA that they will not referee a game that involves that club. If they get appointed to that club they might make the choice not to turn up. The next problem is that these disgruntled referees tell others and they too dont want to referee with those clubs involved.
3.How many people from anyones club want to become a referee? Percentage would be close to 1% if that. I have asked many people over the years and basically the straight answer is no. I have been playing for 25 years and have done some coaching as well in the later years. When I tell people I might look at becoming a referee I get the same response. "Are you crazy, why the hell would you want to do that for. You just get abuse all day"
4. I have kids, I like it when they come out to watch me play. Sure there is langauge used which isnt great but its not too bad. So I was thinking the other day. What if I became a referee next year? Would I want to bring my wife and kids to a game of soccer where many people would abuse me if they didnt agree with my decision? My Wife would be telling me after a game or two this is a joke and we wont be attending again. Its actually no surprise that referees come to the games by themselves these days. Why would you want to see your family go through some of the crap that they go through.
5.Spoke to the President of the CSL the other day who is also a referee. His only being doing it for a few years and has just about had enough it. I wander how many years I would last in the job as a referee? The behaviour of some clubs is just bringing down the league and other clubs.
6.I have mentioned this before in other posts but non official referees are getting more RESPECT then referees. I think the mentality out there is that if a referee turns up then players / coaches / spectators can abuse him as much as they like. Especially spectators. His getting paid so why not is the mentality. In a workplace when your boss or supervisor tells you something that you dont agree with you dont go abusing them back with your views. The RESPECT for refeeres is going down the hill.
Soon there will be none and we will blame the FFSA / CSL.
I am not sure who comes on these forums but if the message doesnt get across soon then the league is in trouble.
I am happy to give refeering ago. Dont know how long I will last but we have so many experts in the league that are happy to abuse the referees but will never actually become one. So instead of complaining and critising them at least try to become one.
Could go on but I am sure there will be some smart people that come on here and disagree with everything.
So overall we just need to get our stuff together and dont abuse the refeere if you cant think you can do it yourself.
Referees That Don't Turn Up
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
Good post, Chelsea. Good on you if you do decide to become a referee. Pretty sure you will do a good job at it and have few issues, as you know the game, you know the CSL and you take a common sense approach. If I ever stop playing or coaching I may follow your lead.
You are right that clubs are often more appreciative and tolerant of an unofficial referee as compared with an official one. I am not 100% sure why. The level of respect for non-offical referees may not last long if club-based referees became the norm though, as abuse of club representatives who do linesman duties is already wide spread.
This is not the fault of any individual referee, but I do not think their cause has been helped this year by the totally stupid rules they have been asked to enforce about what colour tape players can have on their socks and whether they can have undergarments extending 1mm below their shorts. There were far greater issues worth addressing than those. Maybe next year we'll have rules about what haircuts players are allowed to have and what colour drink bottles they can use.
If a referee takes a draconian approach about such matters but then proceeds to be poor at the things that really count then things go downhill fast from there. That does not in any way condone or justify abuse of a referee, but in some cases I know it has been a point of agitation this year.
FFSA could also help the situation by applying more common sense to its referee appointments. For example, there are some really good and fit referees being assigned to div 3 and 4 games and some referees who cannot run are still being assigned to div 1A and 1B games which are twice or more the pace of divs 3 and 4. It is not rocket science.
You are right that clubs are often more appreciative and tolerant of an unofficial referee as compared with an official one. I am not 100% sure why. The level of respect for non-offical referees may not last long if club-based referees became the norm though, as abuse of club representatives who do linesman duties is already wide spread.
This is not the fault of any individual referee, but I do not think their cause has been helped this year by the totally stupid rules they have been asked to enforce about what colour tape players can have on their socks and whether they can have undergarments extending 1mm below their shorts. There were far greater issues worth addressing than those. Maybe next year we'll have rules about what haircuts players are allowed to have and what colour drink bottles they can use.
If a referee takes a draconian approach about such matters but then proceeds to be poor at the things that really count then things go downhill fast from there. That does not in any way condone or justify abuse of a referee, but in some cases I know it has been a point of agitation this year.
FFSA could also help the situation by applying more common sense to its referee appointments. For example, there are some really good and fit referees being assigned to div 3 and 4 games and some referees who cannot run are still being assigned to div 1A and 1B games which are twice or more the pace of divs 3 and 4. It is not rocket science.
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
The issue with refs and respect is a genuine problem and from my narrow field of vision, its seems to be worse this season (or maybe I'm just more aware of it?).
Have said before, I would have considered reffing myself but the constant abuse they get in general stops me from making the jump.
There are some good refs in the FFSA who make the tough calls, explain their decsions, GAIN the respect of most and deal with the moinority of players who need to be taught soem respect (every team has one).
The spectator issue is more intersting as that is where I'm seeing a big increase in the abuse. There is also a fine line bewteen 'banter' and abuse but the line is being blurred more regualarly and crossed repeatedely.
In balance, the rules and behaviour of some refs compounds the atmosphere which often escalates. The colour of tape on socks rule is a great one which causes a 'fall out' before a ball is kicked but I have also seen a player booked for coming onto the pitch befor ekick off but AFTER the ref siad he counted the players!! It is technically correct but this is amateur football and the guy was off the pitch retrieving match balls before KO. Another player who arrived late and cam eon as sub was immediatley booked for having a necklace on. The ref had the chance to ask him to take it off before enetring the pitch but chose to enfporce the letters of the law. This caused much consternation amongst both sets of players. Just examples of silly rules and petty behaviour from a ref.
Not to say that the above means that crowds or players / coaches have the right to abuse the ref regardless but there is a sensible mid point all round for amateur football. We play amateurs and are not playing for the FA cup. A poor decison by the ref isn't the end of the world.... no refs in the future takes us a step closer to the end of the world.
Question is how do clubs go about stopping this in a realistic way? Do the league start to dock points? Do we encourage longer bans especially if a ref is assaulted (should be a life ban)?
Love my football and don't want to see a good league ruined by the mindless, short termed view of a few.
Answers on a postcard
Have said before, I would have considered reffing myself but the constant abuse they get in general stops me from making the jump.
There are some good refs in the FFSA who make the tough calls, explain their decsions, GAIN the respect of most and deal with the moinority of players who need to be taught soem respect (every team has one).
The spectator issue is more intersting as that is where I'm seeing a big increase in the abuse. There is also a fine line bewteen 'banter' and abuse but the line is being blurred more regualarly and crossed repeatedely.
In balance, the rules and behaviour of some refs compounds the atmosphere which often escalates. The colour of tape on socks rule is a great one which causes a 'fall out' before a ball is kicked but I have also seen a player booked for coming onto the pitch befor ekick off but AFTER the ref siad he counted the players!! It is technically correct but this is amateur football and the guy was off the pitch retrieving match balls before KO. Another player who arrived late and cam eon as sub was immediatley booked for having a necklace on. The ref had the chance to ask him to take it off before enetring the pitch but chose to enfporce the letters of the law. This caused much consternation amongst both sets of players. Just examples of silly rules and petty behaviour from a ref.
Not to say that the above means that crowds or players / coaches have the right to abuse the ref regardless but there is a sensible mid point all round for amateur football. We play amateurs and are not playing for the FA cup. A poor decison by the ref isn't the end of the world.... no refs in the future takes us a step closer to the end of the world.
Question is how do clubs go about stopping this in a realistic way? Do the league start to dock points? Do we encourage longer bans especially if a ref is assaulted (should be a life ban)?
Love my football and don't want to see a good league ruined by the mindless, short termed view of a few.
Answers on a postcard
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
Disclaimer: It's all bu**er all to do with me anymore, I was replaced at the club at the end of last season. And so this is not to be taken as coming from my former club (just in case you know who that is).
Good post Chelski (and follow up, Ross), good to see a few take a different line than all the previous bitching in this topic.
I think one of the biggest issues for the CSL is its parent body. The FFSA is about more serious football than the CSL sets out to provide - What is "the amateurs for schools" is being run out of an organisation whose direct parent runs the Aussie National Team. I think a lot of Junior Soccer, that is also FFSA based, is suffering from similar effects.
The colour of tape and skins is where it started, now you are up to shaking hands before matches begin. More and more things getting in the way of just turning up and having a game. As Ross put, stuff like that just gets up peoples nose and it is downhill from there.
On the flip side, I did do quite a bit of "club reffing" and I can't say I enjoyed the experience (but no one else would do it). I wouldn't become an official ref if they paid enough to keep me in oatcakes* for the next 100 years. If I wanted to be abused to that extent, I'd pay a nice young lass to whip me silly!
I also think players/coaches expectations of the standard FFSA refs are able to produce, is way out of line with the ability of the players to play the game. The standard of referee is going to reflect the standard of football. Top referees (I hope!) ref in the top leagues ... however good it is, the CSL is not a top league. License should be (but isn't) given for the refs to make mistakes. And I have seen quite a few of those in my time with the CSL (and amateur league before that), but I believe they have been mistakes and nothing other than that.
I don't expect the lads I have coached, along the way, to play like $200,000 a week superstars - indeed I expect them to f**k up on a regular basis - but I did expect them to do their best. And I didn't have higher expectations of the refs who turned up to officiate.
Rusty raises the issue of spectators being worse than players. I would fully agree with that comment. Far too many people stood beside the barbie, thinking its funny to slag off the only bloke getting paid to be there. I tried to curb the behaviour, when I was coaching, but I had little if any success. And I do think I have just written one of the reasons - non-valid - why refs get it so bad. The attitude of a lot of people (from parents at Junior level to players at Senior) is that refs should be perfect because they are paid (and paid directly by the clubs on match day). I lost count of the number of times I heard, "$50 an hour, he is robbing us blind".
I wonder whether "central contracts" for refs would be a better idea? i.e. the CSL/FFSA pays them and charges clubs higher annual subs to cover the costs. There would be issues (refunds for no shows to clubs) but I do think it would remove some of the "we pay you, you better be good" rubbish that is all to prevalent.
*google them, with bacon and chaze they are the food of the gods
Good post Chelski (and follow up, Ross), good to see a few take a different line than all the previous bitching in this topic.
I think one of the biggest issues for the CSL is its parent body. The FFSA is about more serious football than the CSL sets out to provide - What is "the amateurs for schools" is being run out of an organisation whose direct parent runs the Aussie National Team. I think a lot of Junior Soccer, that is also FFSA based, is suffering from similar effects.
The colour of tape and skins is where it started, now you are up to shaking hands before matches begin. More and more things getting in the way of just turning up and having a game. As Ross put, stuff like that just gets up peoples nose and it is downhill from there.
On the flip side, I did do quite a bit of "club reffing" and I can't say I enjoyed the experience (but no one else would do it). I wouldn't become an official ref if they paid enough to keep me in oatcakes* for the next 100 years. If I wanted to be abused to that extent, I'd pay a nice young lass to whip me silly!
I also think players/coaches expectations of the standard FFSA refs are able to produce, is way out of line with the ability of the players to play the game. The standard of referee is going to reflect the standard of football. Top referees (I hope!) ref in the top leagues ... however good it is, the CSL is not a top league. License should be (but isn't) given for the refs to make mistakes. And I have seen quite a few of those in my time with the CSL (and amateur league before that), but I believe they have been mistakes and nothing other than that.
I don't expect the lads I have coached, along the way, to play like $200,000 a week superstars - indeed I expect them to f**k up on a regular basis - but I did expect them to do their best. And I didn't have higher expectations of the refs who turned up to officiate.
Rusty raises the issue of spectators being worse than players. I would fully agree with that comment. Far too many people stood beside the barbie, thinking its funny to slag off the only bloke getting paid to be there. I tried to curb the behaviour, when I was coaching, but I had little if any success. And I do think I have just written one of the reasons - non-valid - why refs get it so bad. The attitude of a lot of people (from parents at Junior level to players at Senior) is that refs should be perfect because they are paid (and paid directly by the clubs on match day). I lost count of the number of times I heard, "$50 an hour, he is robbing us blind".
I wonder whether "central contracts" for refs would be a better idea? i.e. the CSL/FFSA pays them and charges clubs higher annual subs to cover the costs. There would be issues (refunds for no shows to clubs) but I do think it would remove some of the "we pay you, you better be good" rubbish that is all to prevalent.
*google them, with bacon and chaze they are the food of the gods
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
Some good posts and valid points.
Now hopefully the csl will make this a priority. We need to somehow have control over the referee allocations and get enough of them willing to do our games. My issue from the beginning is with the expansion of the league, I feel that, no one took into account the referee situation. Now hopefully it is a big enough issue for something to be done about it for next season.
We started this season with the expectation of a referee for every game yet this early in the season we are already having issues. If the league is serious about fixing the problem they must start early getting systems in place to guarantee there are enough referees willing to do our games for next year, because it is too late for this season.
Personally I don't think forcing clubs to have someone do the course and have a referee available is the answer. But rewarding clubs and people, for helping the league by providing official referees, might be a start. Also how about working with the ffsa to create a pool of official ffsa referees allocated to the csl which we can control. We can then work with all these willing referees to get the best outcome. The less we rely on the ffsa for organising things the better we will be.
Also we should all work as clubs to seriously reduce the amount of abuse and crap at the games. There is a difference between abuse and emotion. Finally anyone that assault a referee should be banned for life because there is no room for that behaviour in our game.
If a referee isn't willing to do a certain team then allocate them to other games. I would say there are probably 2 guys that don't want to do our games for some crazy reason. But there are at least 5+ different referees that would jump at the chance to do our games. Most clubs get along with most referees, having a mutual respect for each other. So I don't think we can blame the clubs for the shortage of referees.
Now hopefully the csl will make this a priority. We need to somehow have control over the referee allocations and get enough of them willing to do our games. My issue from the beginning is with the expansion of the league, I feel that, no one took into account the referee situation. Now hopefully it is a big enough issue for something to be done about it for next season.
We started this season with the expectation of a referee for every game yet this early in the season we are already having issues. If the league is serious about fixing the problem they must start early getting systems in place to guarantee there are enough referees willing to do our games for next year, because it is too late for this season.
Personally I don't think forcing clubs to have someone do the course and have a referee available is the answer. But rewarding clubs and people, for helping the league by providing official referees, might be a start. Also how about working with the ffsa to create a pool of official ffsa referees allocated to the csl which we can control. We can then work with all these willing referees to get the best outcome. The less we rely on the ffsa for organising things the better we will be.
Also we should all work as clubs to seriously reduce the amount of abuse and crap at the games. There is a difference between abuse and emotion. Finally anyone that assault a referee should be banned for life because there is no room for that behaviour in our game.
If a referee isn't willing to do a certain team then allocate them to other games. I would say there are probably 2 guys that don't want to do our games for some crazy reason. But there are at least 5+ different referees that would jump at the chance to do our games. Most clubs get along with most referees, having a mutual respect for each other. So I don't think we can blame the clubs for the shortage of referees.
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
On a positive note we had "dokic" yesterday and he actually did a great job. Yes there were a few questionable decisions both ways but that happens at the highest levels. Also after speaking to him I had respect for him. I couldn't believe how many games he does on a weekend. I'm sure he gets plenty of abuse every week but you don't see him sulking and refusing to referee. He loves the game and that is why he does it. I have to admit the lecture about the rules of the game was pretty funny but we all knew where we stood before the game started.