In reference to your views "nobody" - they are your views which you can freely express - but I think its a bit unfair to make statements without also stating the facts.
Referee numbers as a whole are slightly down for the FFSA and all FFSA competitions are being impacted not just the CSL.
The expansion of the league has very little to do with this problem as the league is significantly better by way of the expansion with new clubs, promotion/relegation alignment of kick-off times, Friday night matches etc etc.
Let's not forget pre expansion with about 38 teams in the CSL required on average 11 to 12 referees each week.
This was mainly due to staggered start times, i.e. 1.00pm, 1.30 pm, 2.30 pm and 3.15 pm matches.
The league has now expanded to 64 teams this season, had an alignment of kick-off times since 2012 and only requires an additional 6 referees to cover an additional 13 matches (pre-expansion)- so a lot of thought has gone into expansion of the league and aligning such decisions with referee resources and as "buzzy" stated, the chairman has led by example to address this ongoing issue by becoming a referee as well.
Why not do the course or at least someone in your club do the course and put their hand-up to referee CSL matches which start at 11.00 am or 1.00 pm and still be a part of your club which kick-off at 3.15 pm.
Food for thought and really an issue being blown out of proportion - think about it over 612 matches this season without factoring Collegiate Cup matches.
On average over the season, 2 to 3 matches may not have an official referee - total per annum 36 to 54 matches without an official referee - less than 9% of all matches.
Last season the average was less than one match each round so let's put things into perspective.
We only need willing club participants - probably no more than 6 to become offical referees and referee for the CSL and the problem of shortages is a thing of the past.
Referees That Don't Turn Up
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
Come on Pescara, can you honestly tell me there is not a problem with referees.
How many games last week were not allocated referees???
As a club competing in a competition affiliated with the FFSA we expect a referee for every game. Is that too much to ask? Why are we affiliated with the FFSA if they can't provide us with referees??
It is not our fault there are games that don't get allocated referees. I'm sorry but I think it is unacceptable that we have to put up with playing an official game without an official referee.
Simply provide a referee for every game this season and I will proudly accept I was wrong and the CSL is doing a superb job at organising a very successful expanded competition.
Also, don't get me wrong, I'm all for an expanded competition and I would love for it to expand further. BUT don't compromise the integrity and quality of the competition for higher numbers. Referees are an integral part of our league and game, so without them we have nothing. My issue is from the outside it seems that the referee issue is not a priority, where really it is everything that seperates us from others. Asking clubs to provide a FFSA qualified referee is not the answer.....BUT....providing an incentive for referees to be part of our league could be a start. If we spend enough time on the issue there will be a solution. You can't ignore it and hope it will go away because it needs to be fixed before it gets out of control. Just like running any successful business or organisation.
How many games last week were not allocated referees???
As a club competing in a competition affiliated with the FFSA we expect a referee for every game. Is that too much to ask? Why are we affiliated with the FFSA if they can't provide us with referees??
It is not our fault there are games that don't get allocated referees. I'm sorry but I think it is unacceptable that we have to put up with playing an official game without an official referee.
Simply provide a referee for every game this season and I will proudly accept I was wrong and the CSL is doing a superb job at organising a very successful expanded competition.
Also, don't get me wrong, I'm all for an expanded competition and I would love for it to expand further. BUT don't compromise the integrity and quality of the competition for higher numbers. Referees are an integral part of our league and game, so without them we have nothing. My issue is from the outside it seems that the referee issue is not a priority, where really it is everything that seperates us from others. Asking clubs to provide a FFSA qualified referee is not the answer.....BUT....providing an incentive for referees to be part of our league could be a start. If we spend enough time on the issue there will be a solution. You can't ignore it and hope it will go away because it needs to be fixed before it gets out of control. Just like running any successful business or organisation.
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
Nobody - I understand your frustrations aswell as a player and president, but your not even offering up a solution. You say the league has over expanded... so what we just kick clubs out because we dont have enough refs?
And if we are not affiliated with FFSA then who are we going to affiliate ourselves with exactly?? And what would that achieve anyway? Theres simply not enough refs to be at every game, and considering the size of soccer in Australia, its not exactly surprising. I think its a problem but I agree this issue has been blown out of proportion.
As pescara said, go out, get qualified, and help the situation rather than complain about it on a forum.
And if we are not affiliated with FFSA then who are we going to affiliate ourselves with exactly?? And what would that achieve anyway? Theres simply not enough refs to be at every game, and considering the size of soccer in Australia, its not exactly surprising. I think its a problem but I agree this issue has been blown out of proportion.
As pescara said, go out, get qualified, and help the situation rather than complain about it on a forum.
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
Well said MickyP21. Comments by "Nobody" dont excite me but I understand his frustrations.
I think what people need to start thinking about is giving back to the next generation that is coming through.
Older players should try and get involved in becoming a referee. When we grew up we had referees and now we need to do the same for the next generation.
With the sport growing / people are also more busy / Abbuse that referees get from players and spectators.
Just just a few reasons why we dont have people joining up.
So if the league can get 10 people to join up then we can finish this discussion. That's 1/2 person per club.
After we have the 10 people signed up as referees we can then come on the forum and complain how bad they are.
I think what people need to start thinking about is giving back to the next generation that is coming through.
Older players should try and get involved in becoming a referee. When we grew up we had referees and now we need to do the same for the next generation.
With the sport growing / people are also more busy / Abbuse that referees get from players and spectators.
Just just a few reasons why we dont have people joining up.
So if the league can get 10 people to join up then we can finish this discussion. That's 1/2 person per club.
After we have the 10 people signed up as referees we can then come on the forum and complain how bad they are.
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Totalfootball
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:20 pm
- Current Club: whites
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
if i may,
FFSA and Affiliated Clubs are not covered for insurance when playing SAASL teams. Only University teams who have their own insurance (are allowed as they have their own insurance and are covered as the insurance is equal to or better than FFSA's one). This is the only reason where some clubs can play Amateur teams without insurance issues.
Referee's cannot referee a game unless it is sanctioned by FFSA, again Uni teams have a bonus where by they can have a referee from amateurs as they don't seem to mind about sanctioning issues.
hope this helps
FFSA and Affiliated Clubs are not covered for insurance when playing SAASL teams. Only University teams who have their own insurance (are allowed as they have their own insurance and are covered as the insurance is equal to or better than FFSA's one). This is the only reason where some clubs can play Amateur teams without insurance issues.
Referee's cannot referee a game unless it is sanctioned by FFSA, again Uni teams have a bonus where by they can have a referee from amateurs as they don't seem to mind about sanctioning issues.
hope this helps
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Squeezy Cheesey Peas
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:19 pm
- Current Club: Adelaide City
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
The expansion of football IN GENERAL is outstripping the refs available and the gap is getting bigger....
I have considered moving to that next stage and giving something back to the game but again today I have seen why I honestly don't want to become a ref...
Second week on the row where the ref has been subjected to pressurre, constant verbal interogation (not direct abuse but a continuous erosion of his decsions and therefore integrity) etc etc.
The ref today ended up sending off 2 players and it should have been 3+ from a team in the comp who should know better.
Talking to the ref after the game, he was fed up to the back teeth and quote " will request not to ref that team again, after already asking not to previousley". He satted that he should have sent at least one / two more off but didn't want to abandon the game!
The ref was actually quite good, fair and even handed and there was no reson for the pressurre to be exerted. Don't get me wrong... there was no fighting or violence of any sorts.. just constant whining, so called professional acts and relentless verbal intimidation.
Point is, thats why the ref situation is a problem and why on earth would anyone want to be subjected to that? Its every week, in differing levels of abuse, sometimes from players , sometimes from the rent a mobs that can make a game interesting or a nightmare! I cannot bring myself to do it as I would end up with an empty pitch!!
There has to be a change of culture in the game, a bit like rugby where the ref is provided with the ultimate respect. Yes, some are awful. Yes some drive us all bonkers but no ref = no game.
I hope he carries through with his intent to report the team ( although most refs don't foramlly do this) and I hope there are consequences as the game and the CSL comp NEED refs, both now and in the future to keep the CSL the excellent competition that is.
Just have a look at the SAASL forum for some great insights into whats happens if proper refs aren't allocated...its scary.
I have considered moving to that next stage and giving something back to the game but again today I have seen why I honestly don't want to become a ref...
Second week on the row where the ref has been subjected to pressurre, constant verbal interogation (not direct abuse but a continuous erosion of his decsions and therefore integrity) etc etc.
The ref today ended up sending off 2 players and it should have been 3+ from a team in the comp who should know better.
Talking to the ref after the game, he was fed up to the back teeth and quote " will request not to ref that team again, after already asking not to previousley". He satted that he should have sent at least one / two more off but didn't want to abandon the game!
The ref was actually quite good, fair and even handed and there was no reson for the pressurre to be exerted. Don't get me wrong... there was no fighting or violence of any sorts.. just constant whining, so called professional acts and relentless verbal intimidation.
Point is, thats why the ref situation is a problem and why on earth would anyone want to be subjected to that? Its every week, in differing levels of abuse, sometimes from players , sometimes from the rent a mobs that can make a game interesting or a nightmare! I cannot bring myself to do it as I would end up with an empty pitch!!
There has to be a change of culture in the game, a bit like rugby where the ref is provided with the ultimate respect. Yes, some are awful. Yes some drive us all bonkers but no ref = no game.
I hope he carries through with his intent to report the team ( although most refs don't foramlly do this) and I hope there are consequences as the game and the CSL comp NEED refs, both now and in the future to keep the CSL the excellent competition that is.
Just have a look at the SAASL forum for some great insights into whats happens if proper refs aren't allocated...its scary.
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
It is obvious that because I don't has a solution then I shouldn't bring up the topic. So here is my solution.
At the beginning of the season look at the number of games being played every week. Then get from the FFSA a list of the referees available and allocated to the collegiate league. If there is a short fall look at staggering times to allow referees to travel to two different grounds between games. Give them an incentive to do this. To all the teams that have only one game, they would have to pay a premium price for a referee to make it worthwhile.
Also the CSL organises a referee coaching clinic one month before the season starts to get as many people as possible qualified as official FFSA referees. This would be fully funded by the CSL. Each club will have the opportunity to voluntarily send one person per team to do the course at no charge. They will then be allocated the fill in games and the club will be compensated as well as the referee match payments.
This would all be paid for by all the clubs having to contribute to a referees fund of $$ per team registered. At the end of the season you work out how many games have been refereed by clubs and they are paid accordingly from the fund.
Anyway that is just a thought.
Also Squeezy be careful because there is always two sides to a story and the opposition team isn't always as innocent as the referee makes them out to be.
At the beginning of the season look at the number of games being played every week. Then get from the FFSA a list of the referees available and allocated to the collegiate league. If there is a short fall look at staggering times to allow referees to travel to two different grounds between games. Give them an incentive to do this. To all the teams that have only one game, they would have to pay a premium price for a referee to make it worthwhile.
Also the CSL organises a referee coaching clinic one month before the season starts to get as many people as possible qualified as official FFSA referees. This would be fully funded by the CSL. Each club will have the opportunity to voluntarily send one person per team to do the course at no charge. They will then be allocated the fill in games and the club will be compensated as well as the referee match payments.
This would all be paid for by all the clubs having to contribute to a referees fund of $$ per team registered. At the end of the season you work out how many games have been refereed by clubs and they are paid accordingly from the fund.
Anyway that is just a thought.
Also Squeezy be careful because there is always two sides to a story and the opposition team isn't always as innocent as the referee makes them out to be.
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Squeezy Cheesey Peas
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:19 pm
- Current Club: Adelaide City
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
You miss the point Nobody.....
I don't care about he did, she did.... the refs are having to take constant, unbearable c**p off teams on a weekly basis and it is undoubetedley the biggest issue facing any future recruitment into the ranks. Why would anyone want to become a ref or even less likely, a part time, on call ref regardless of whether you incentivise them or not???
Whether the ref at the game in question was right or wrong, whether the opposition were as verbally intimidating as your team or any other team isn't the point.
If he (the ref) BELEIVES that you, your team, my team, someones elses team, any other damn player is abusing or harrassing him at a level and at a frequency that HE deems is unaccptable then its a problem.
My comment about your game is based solely around the fact he saw fit to send 2 players off for that reason and was close to sending a third plus an opposition player off for the same issue.
This isn't a personal criticism of any team, just using a real, valid example of why the issues with refs wil not improve. WE as players, teams and individuals have to make this easier.....
Pescara is dead right.. This sort of intimidation / harrassment would not be tolerated anywhere in the modern working world. All of us need to just Play the game, shut our mouths and lets reverese this tide which is strangling the game.
No refs = no games... Too easy to blame the CSL or expansion for the rare ref syndrome.
I don't care about he did, she did.... the refs are having to take constant, unbearable c**p off teams on a weekly basis and it is undoubetedley the biggest issue facing any future recruitment into the ranks. Why would anyone want to become a ref or even less likely, a part time, on call ref regardless of whether you incentivise them or not???
Whether the ref at the game in question was right or wrong, whether the opposition were as verbally intimidating as your team or any other team isn't the point.
If he (the ref) BELEIVES that you, your team, my team, someones elses team, any other damn player is abusing or harrassing him at a level and at a frequency that HE deems is unaccptable then its a problem.
My comment about your game is based solely around the fact he saw fit to send 2 players off for that reason and was close to sending a third plus an opposition player off for the same issue.
This isn't a personal criticism of any team, just using a real, valid example of why the issues with refs wil not improve. WE as players, teams and individuals have to make this easier.....
Pescara is dead right.. This sort of intimidation / harrassment would not be tolerated anywhere in the modern working world. All of us need to just Play the game, shut our mouths and lets reverese this tide which is strangling the game.
No refs = no games... Too easy to blame the CSL or expansion for the rare ref syndrome.
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
One thing that I have found interesting in the last few weeks in regards to matches with no referees.
The guys that took on the role to referee the game actually received alot of respect from the players. Maybe even more then what the referee would of got.
No game actually looked like getting out of control.
Anyone can become a referee but the good referees know how to communicate with players about their decisions whether they are right or wrong and the game stays in control. Also having an Ex player as a referee makes it easier as they understand the game from a players point of view.
We need more people to put their hand up and become referees. Then we can cover all the games and even eliminate the bad ones. The bad ones now just keep on going as they are required.
The guys that took on the role to referee the game actually received alot of respect from the players. Maybe even more then what the referee would of got.
No game actually looked like getting out of control.
Anyone can become a referee but the good referees know how to communicate with players about their decisions whether they are right or wrong and the game stays in control. Also having an Ex player as a referee makes it easier as they understand the game from a players point of view.
We need more people to put their hand up and become referees. Then we can cover all the games and even eliminate the bad ones. The bad ones now just keep on going as they are required.
Re: Referees That Don't Turn Up
Squeezy I disagree with you observations and believe your accusations are incorrect. Anyway that's another topic.
I totally agree with the fact that no one should be abused or harassed and if they are then the player should be punished because it is unacceptable. BUT referees must also be able to communicate with the players and have a mutual respect for each other. I learnt a long time ago, get on the right side of the ref and he will look after you.....the opposite also applies!!!!!
I totally agree with the fact that no one should be abused or harassed and if they are then the player should be punished because it is unacceptable. BUT referees must also be able to communicate with the players and have a mutual respect for each other. I learnt a long time ago, get on the right side of the ref and he will look after you.....the opposite also applies!!!!!